I’m ranty this morning, so
I'm ranty this morning, so if you're not in the mood... move on little doggie.
Justify your job is the flavor of the week. "The Bobs" are coming in this week or early next to review what everyone I work with does with every moment of every day that could vaguely be construed as work and then break that into billables that they'll compare against outsource rates to replace us. The good news is we're all busy as fuck and highly skilled. The bad news is they can hire 10 guys in India for less money than they probably pay one US worker. I talked to a buddy of mine yesterday that has a friend who works for an outsourcing outfit opening a datacenter in India. They were over there interviewing potentials and he described this one sharp young man with a masters degree in an IT field and years of experience. He said that he had it going on... sharp as a tack... ready to work... yadda. He had to leave the room when they started talking salary because this young man asked for $17k a year with a straight face full of hope that they might go out on a limb and pay him such a bounty. Fuck. I couldn't support my family on $17k a year without shedding our worldly possessions and moving into an underpass. This is what we're up against. Companies come in and tell executives that even if they saved no money in operations and salary, simply moving the datacenter to Canada or overseas will save them 20+% per annum in exchange rate alone. When you stack that on top of these little bitches that will work for more than American teenagers make at a part time summer job at 7-11, savings of up to 60 or 70 percent could be reasonable achieved. Top management doesn't see this as a murderous blow to the economy or potential future risk to "homeland security", they see money saved as money that can buy the golden thread to weave their parachutes and fatten their pocket lining in the interim. Bonuses for saving the company money. Bonuses for putting subordinates on the street and endangering the lifestyles of their loved ones... which is really why we work anyway... or at least why I work. If I had no household to support, I would be the biggest beatnik motherfucker that ever washed dishes across the nation. I have grown to despise our corporate society not because of the people that are in it, but because of the culture that controls those people. It's fundamentally wrong and has devalued that which I believe is important. It does not good bitching about it. We're on a downward spiral with no light at the end of the tunnel. I hate.
Justify your job is the flavor of the week. "The Bobs" are coming in this week or early next to review what everyone I work with does with every moment of every day that could vaguely be construed as work and then break that into billables that they'll compare against outsource rates to replace us. The good news is we're all busy as fuck and highly skilled. The bad news is they can hire 10 guys in India for less money than they probably pay one US worker. I talked to a buddy of mine yesterday that has a friend who works for an outsourcing outfit opening a datacenter in India. They were over there interviewing potentials and he described this one sharp young man with a masters degree in an IT field and years of experience. He said that he had it going on... sharp as a tack... ready to work... yadda. He had to leave the room when they started talking salary because this young man asked for $17k a year with a straight face full of hope that they might go out on a limb and pay him such a bounty. Fuck. I couldn't support my family on $17k a year without shedding our worldly possessions and moving into an underpass. This is what we're up against. Companies come in and tell executives that even if they saved no money in operations and salary, simply moving the datacenter to Canada or overseas will save them 20+% per annum in exchange rate alone. When you stack that on top of these little bitches that will work for more than American teenagers make at a part time summer job at 7-11, savings of up to 60 or 70 percent could be reasonable achieved. Top management doesn't see this as a murderous blow to the economy or potential future risk to "homeland security", they see money saved as money that can buy the golden thread to weave their parachutes and fatten their pocket lining in the interim. Bonuses for saving the company money. Bonuses for putting subordinates on the street and endangering the lifestyles of their loved ones... which is really why we work anyway... or at least why I work. If I had no household to support, I would be the biggest beatnik motherfucker that ever washed dishes across the nation. I have grown to despise our corporate society not because of the people that are in it, but because of the culture that controls those people. It's fundamentally wrong and has devalued that which I believe is important. It does not good bitching about it. We're on a downward spiral with no light at the end of the tunnel. I hate.
Supply and Demand. As long as corporations keep beating the shit out of vendors for huge discounts for products and services, the vendors will look for more ways to provide them and stay in the game.
yeah - that whole cheap labo(u)r thing was great for the west when it was cheap clothing and Nike shoes that you could sell to an ever more voracious western audience. But now the whole concept is coming back to bite corporate America in the butt.
Can’t even begin to think where all this will lead from here.
It is especially ironic that the US is hit with this much harder than for example Europe. Workers in the US make significantly less money than in Europe, work longer hours, and have benefits that are such low quality that any decent civilized community would be ashamed of it. It exposes the core of the US corporate ethics, it is all about the bottom line.
And the problem in the IT space is not just cheap labor abroad. I have worked with quite a few grads from IIT, and they are truly very, very smart and with a work ethic that is unbelievable. So by outsourcing to India, you not only get things cheaper, you often get it at a higher quality in less time. Competition with especially India who are producing large numbers of highly qualified engineers is going to be very, very hard.
Funny that, Werner. It wasn’t so long ago that the US was recruiting British programmers to work in the US and paying them much more than their counterparts back home (I married one of them, hence me being here in the UK now). This must have changed in only the last 6 or 7 years. The working conditions holidays in particular), on the other hand, were probably always better over here.
Of course, the games industry in the UK is getting pretty hard hit from Eastern Europe at the moment…
Amen.
I read in the Syracuse Post Standard (Go ‘Cuse!) yesterday that they can pay a worker in India $10,000 when they would have to pay a worker in the US $65,000.
Like you said, for these companies and their stupid bottom line they will gladly ship all of their IT work overseas. Microsoft has been doing it for years, and now the smaller companies are starting to do the same. It is getting to a point where it is impossible to find a job.
I applied for a basic position at Syracuse University. Just doing real basic support, Installing workstations, fixing workstations, etc, and there were over 250 applicants.
And like you said, they are comprimising security with every worker they employ overseas. I don’t care what you are paying someone in India. When push comes to shove, their loyalty is not to the US. I would be much more comfortable testing the loyalties of a homegrown American, but maybe that is just me.
Lisa, maybe my statement of low pay-long hours-shitty benefits is more generally true for production type work. For specialist assignments or consulting US companies still seem to fork over premium dollars. But NYC has currently 20,000 IT workers unemployed, and where many of my undergrads would easily find a $45-$50K job after graduation a few years back, it is now at least $10K less, *if* the can find a job at all.
In the Europe vs US salary issue I forgot about the issue of taxes. If you make $65K in the US you actually get to keep $40K of it, in Europe (or at least in the Netherlands, where I am from originally) you would have to contribute at least 50% to the common good. I know this is off topic, but I just thought about it.
Well, it depends on whether you approve of the services you get for that. Top tax rate in the UK is 40% (for anything over Ł35,000). But I don’t have to pay any additional for health care and am happy to contribute to other’s health care. Not everyone is happy with that sort of arrangement, of course…
40% ?
shit. I pay almost that now and get nothing but a big pain in the ass once a year at tax time.
Homeland security! Starwars missile defense! Aid to Israel!
I mean, you would be a lunatic to expect health care, care for the homeless and the elderly, and schools staffed with compensated educators.
Soooo much better to wage a “war on drugs” and keep building prisons.
Ha ha. I like Michael’s post.
You IT people need to learn a 3D package and fill the void in film, commercial and videogame animation and effects. The US talent pool is dry. For years we’ve been recruiting from all over the world to keep up with the demand for more and bigger FX. Half the people I know in this industry have H1 visas.
I just wish more of those jobs were in Texas :(
sounds like Vision Graphics needs to rear it’s ugly head!
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